Professor Ibrahim Agboola Gambari

ChinAfrica: How much confidence has your time spent as head of the UN's Political Affairs department given you in your current job?

Ibrahim Agboola Gambari: When I was Head of Political Affairs I was serving one organization. Now as Head of Darfur I'm serving two organizations. And sometimes their positions on issues are not all exactly the same. So that brings a special challenge. For example, for the UN Security Council on the International Criminal Court, they refer the issue of Darfur and President Bashir of Sudan to the International Criminal Court and now President Bashir has been indicted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes. Now that is the position of the UN. For the African Union, on the other hand, they reject this indictment. They regard President Bashir as the head of a member state of the African Union, in good standing. And they've requested the Security Council to suspend this indictment in the interest of peace, but the Security Council has refused. So the African Union is taking a different position from the UN and I am representing both in the same country. But because I am partly African Union and partly UN, and because this mission is partly Africa and partly UN, I think we were able to use the African Union as an entrée, to be able to get the foot indoor, to be able to send some messages, that are very critical, but which will be received by the president of Sudan differently coming from the African Union. So there are some advantages in being representing both but also some special challenges.

In Sudan you have the role of being a diplomat and head of peacekeeping operations. How do you reconcile the two?

In Sudan, yes. By the way, when fully deployed, I hope by the end of this year, the peacekeeping mission will involve 31,000 military, civilians and the police, which will make it - it's actually already the biggest peacekeeping mission in the world. And with a budget of almost [$]1.9 billion, it's also the most expensive. So I wear two hats; I have two roles. I'm both a manager of this huge operation as well as a peacemaker.

Now there are three main reasons why UNAMID (AU-UN Mission in Darfur) is unique and it will test the skills of any diplomat. One is that in the past or conventionally, you send a peacekeeping force to an area where there is a peace agreement that's already signed and your role is trying to help the parties to implement the agreement. In the case of Darfur, we were deployed without a peace agreement. So we have to try to carry out our mandate in the absence of an agreement. The second is that peacekeeping is separated from peacemaking, there is another person appointed to do the peacemaking in a different country, you know, so which creates a further disconnect. And the third characteristic is what I already told you - I serve two masters. So that brings special responsibilities and challenges. But I am somebody who loves challenges.

How would you evaluate the progress made by UNAMID in the past few years?

I have just been there four months. I think it's fair to say that UNAMID has fulfilled as best as it can its call mandate of providing security for the civilian population. For example, we have military patrols, we have police patrols, on a daily basis; we have police's centers in or near the camps, IDP camps, to give a sense of security and to protect the civilians.

Secondly, we have been working to create conditions and to provide the environment for the delivery of humanitarian assistance to those who need it. I just set some priorities for the mission. And my first priority is to be proactive in the peace process so I've been to Doha four times already. The second priority is to encourage better relations between Chad and Sudan because you see, until the two sides came together to find an agreement to normalize relations, Sudan Government was supporting the armed opposition in Chad and Chad was supporting the armed opposition, JEM (Justice and Equality Movement), in Sudan. Then, of course, the top priority is how to facilitate early recovery and development because it is not sustainable to have 2.5 million people permanently in IDP camps.

What do you think of China's performance in resolving the Darfur issue so far?

Well first of all, China as a member of P5 authorized this mission in the Security Council, but more than that China has a special envoy, in addition to the ambassador in Sudan, who's been very active. I'm in touch with him constantly. So I value that but more concretely China has an engineering company, as part of UNAMID, in south of Darfur. I've visited them. They have drilling equipment to share the water. Water is actually an instrument for peace. In general they have been an ally in the peace process because their troops are part of UNAMID.

You said that the military action is not a solution to the Darfur issue. Do you think that the UN's Security Council should take tougher actions?

Well what I meant is that there can be no military solution to the conflict because if there could have been…there should have been. But the fact that despite all the fighting, we haven't been able to bring peace means that we have to intensify the political process, and the peace negotiations to get a peace agreement. I have suggested that the Security Council should visit Darfur because by visiting it will show that it cares, then they will get a better understanding of the reality so that whatever decision they make they will be influenced by the fact that they have been there and talked to everybody, and finally it will send a powerful signal to the parties saying, "Well, the world is watching you because the Security Council is here." 

If peace is not concluded in Darfur by the end of this year, it will cause even more complications in Sudan next year. Why? Because in January there will be a referendum where the people of the South will decide whether to stay in the United Sudan or to become a brand new state. Well, either way, it will have implications for Darfur and for Sudan. So it is really desirable to try to solve the Darfurian political process before January, otherwise there will be two difficult issues facing not only Sudan but also the neighboring countries, Africa as a whole and the international community.

What do you see as the root causes of the Darfur conflict?

So what are the root causes of the problems in Darfur? First the feeling of marginalization; that power was concentrated in the center, which is Khartoum and the periphery like Darfur didn't have much. For example, there are three governors of the three states that make up Darfur. They used to be appointed from Khartoum. Now, during the last election, they were elected. Now, we have also 144 elected members of the state assembly, then you have 72 Darfurians elected to represent Darfur in the national assembly, so at least the issue of representation, of marginalization, politically, is being addressed. And I'm sure when the peace agreements are concluded, they have the provision for further decentralization and addressing the issue of marginalization, which is one of the root causes.

But the second, that is more fundamental, is economic and resources. We have a conflict between the nomadic people in Darfur and the farmers. The nomads who need water and greater lands for their cattle and their camels [clash with] the farmers who also want the same and there is competition for that. Along with this is the environmental issue, the degradation; climate change is also affecting this. The amount of land, the amount of water available is limited and it is shrinking and yet the competition is increasing. So we have to address the land issue, the land ownership issue, the water resources, the water sharing so it's not just about power sharing but also wealth sharing, and it's about decentralization of power and it's about addressing these root causes of the conflict.

And there is a final dimension, which is the role of civil society, the women, the youth groups, the people who are not taking up guns but who are in [the midst of] fighting and suffering. So we think their voice should be heard more and my mission, UNAMID, is helping to organize the civil society so that we will give a better voice to their conscience, to their needs, their demands for the urgency of peace and the end of this war because they suffer the most. So that's also one of the priorities of my mission.

Do you still think there is hope for peace in Darfur?

Well if I didn't think so I would not be on this job. But I genuinely believe that the situation is more difficult now but it didn't used to be. Two months ago there was hope for a peace agreement and ceasefire so we have to return to this sense of hope. We have to know why things changed suddenly and how to return to that. That's number one. Number two, as I mentioned, events in Sudan itself really can be used positively to resolve the matter in Darfur. Although, there is high expectation, there is also a lot of support and good work and I intend to build on that…for the sake of the people of Darfur who have suffered too much, too painfully, too long…we have to try to give them the opportunity of peace.

(Reporting from New York)